In this episode, Peta chats with Khadija Gbla, a remarkable black, autistic, and disabled human rights advocate.
Khadija shares their powerful journey from being a refugee to becoming a strong voice for multiple marginalised communities, including the disability, neurodivergent, and immigrant communities. They discuss the importance of embracing one's identity, the challenges of navigating intersectionality, and their hopes for a more inclusive future.
Connect with Khadija:
Website: https://www.khadijagbla.com.au/about
Connect with Peta:
Instagram: @petahooke
Website: www.icantstandpodcast.com
Email: icantstandpodcast@gmail.com
Episode Transcript:
Peta [00:00:00] Before we get started this week, I just wanted to let you know of the subject matter that's discussed. On today's episode, we discuss racism, April ism, and very briefly, domestic violence. If those topics are not right for you right now, I encourage you to skip it. Can I also remind you that there's always lifeline and you can ring them and contact them on 13 1114.
Peta [00:00:34] Hello and welcome to the I Constant Podcast, the podcast answering your questions about what life is like when you have a disability. My name's Peta. I had cerebral palsy and I'm your host. I'm very pleased to be able to tell you that today's guest is Khadija Gbla. Where Khalija is many things. They are disabled. They are black. They are human rights activist. Disability activist. There are survivor of DV. Domestic violence. They are a parent to a disabled child. Their perspective on what it is like for them living with their disability is so valuable. And I'm so excited for you to hear it. Collegiate was a fantastic guest and made my job very easy. They are hyper-focused. And boy oh boy does it make for a great episode. So without any further ado, let's get into it.
Khadija [00:01:49] Hi everyone. Wherever you are across Australia on indigenous lands. My name is Khadija Gbla. I am currently on Ghana land, a land that I have been privileged to call home for the last 23 years. As a former refugee and indigenous person myself, afro indigenous and I am a human rights activist, a mum to a beautiful baby. I'm just, a disabled person and it is such an honour to be able to say those words out loud and to acknowledge it, and to claim that, so openly and unapologetically so thank you for having me. And thank you for listening to my story today.
Peta [00:02:35] So first and foremost, I want to start with Khadija. When did you first feel like you were proud of your sacred identity? Because it's very clear, talking to you now that you stay so proud in your disabled identity. What was the first time for you?
Khadija [00:02:52] It was my baby. A couple of years ago, my child got diagnosed with autism, ADHD, developmental disability, epilepsy, and a bunch of other things. And I have the, consent to share these details because I've asked because disabled people don't tell anyone their medical information. So I requested and asked my child if it's okay as part of my story. If I share this and they have, they said it's okay because we'll help other children. That's what they have said when that happened. You know, I think every parent is confronted with multiple emotions. For me, what I was confronted with was being always able bodied, that denial of my existence as a disabled child. That denial of my access to disability supports that denial of my identity, that lack of validation. Am I so what I would have wanted to be said to me as a child, what I how I would have wanted to be treated. So when I realised that nothing has changed for me as a mother, that I love this child unequivocally, that I want the best for this child. I want them to thrive. I want them to be happy. Whatever form that comes in. It's not about achievement, happiness. If I was in the shame of being given the news that my child is disabled, why couldn't I not have time and space to give to myself to say you are disabled? You have always been disabled even though that was not given to you, that name, that validation, that accommodation, that journey, who would of of been engaged that way? It doesn't take away from the fact that I existed and lived in a world where I was disabled people. You treated me, people treated me. That's less that and different. But in the same token, I had the privilege of having disabilities that could not be seen. I am the best parent for them because all my experiences of being different, being black, nonbinary, being disabled but not always that way, but still having my disability weaponized this by but not by name, but weaponized at home. Weaponized my community, weaponized in the broader Australian community. Those experiences did equip me to be the parent they need, because I have walked that path because I know what it feels like. But more than that, I know the impact of a disabled child. Not supported, not validated, not given accommodation. I am living proof of that. But I now have the chance to change generational trauma and have generational healing. And it wasn't just for my child. It was for little Khadijah. How could I not be proud when, for the first time in my life, at the age of I believe it was 34, I would come out and say I am disabled. You're going to see me with my shiny walking stick from the skies. You will hear me roar and get ready to hear my opinions on everything. I have a lot to say.
Peta [00:06:04] I love it. You're the ideal guest for a podcast because I'm just ready to listen. I love it. I'm off. Obviously, I have to say, your child is so lucky to have influence from you of what a disabled life can be. As somebody who had Nondisabled parents, my parents did an amazing job raising me as a disabled person. However, the knowledge that you would have that would be just instinctive in you cannot be taught because you live it every day and you fully understand what your child's life can be like and what you wish you had have had at their age.
Khadija [00:06:48] It's a gift, to be honest with you, and I have never felt it in even more than I have felt it in this new divergent space. You know, it wasn't just coming out and acknowledging that I have always been physically disabled. I have fibromyalgia, you know, I have parts, I have EDS, I have chronic fatigue. I have these conditions that really work against each other and multiply that so many long lists. When I got diagnosed with autism and ADHD off the back of my child being diagnosed and realising that the whole time. Part of why I thought nothing of any of their quirks and who they were, was because they reminded me so much of my amazing self. And then in the bits I didn't see myself, I saw my job as a pig and to adapt to my child's need. We both want quiet, controlled home. We both want to know who's visiting. We don't want surprises. We both need a routine that is such a gift. And where we're different, it is also okay. That's where I kick in as a parent. And then it's like, this is a child first home. This is a disabled priority home.
Peta [00:08:01] And not only that, your household is where disability is a majority, which is yet nowhere else really. So it's must be a lovely place to live.
Khadija [00:08:12] It really is. And I think over the years I have come to understand and know this from the black side of our identity, the world. When I go out in the world, I have to code switch, which is another word for my skin. You know, we talk about masking for neurodivergent people. Autistic people. But black people, indigenous people, people of colour also have a form of masking they have to do. Because we live in a white supremacist world, because we don't live in a world that is equal for black people and you just people. We don't have racial equality. So for that reason, we have to put an armour on. We have to code switch to survive to be able to be safe. Just existing. People think I'm angry. Just existing people say I'm aggressive. I don't get the benefit of the doubt. Not having my voice to be equal to my counterpart, not being paid equal to my white counterpart. All of these differences mean consistently the moment I leave my home. It's almost like a battlefield. To keep safe and to get quick enough to get home safely to my child. So home has always been the one. My sanctuary, my safe haven. And when you have gone through DV like I have with somebody, made you feel unsafe in your home because of your disability, because of your gender or any of the other part of your identity, all making and creating a safe home becomes a life journey. Our homes have to be the place we don't mark where we let it all go. Well for disabled self. Come out. You're having a meltdown. Nobody needs to be prioritised over you in those moment. You don't need to have an audience. You need to let go and know you are safe. Mama got you. And that's how it should feel for every one of us. I wish we home would be the safe place, the safest place for everyone. But I know that's not true.
Peta [00:10:14] That is why your work so important, because you add a very strong voice to the community, the disability community, the immigrant, the immigrant community, the non-binary community. It's very important for everybody to feel heard. And I'm sure and I know you take that responsibility very seriously from the perspective of the disabled community. I am very aware that we're very white, like it's just a reality. There's a lot of white people in the disability community. Have you felt accepted by the disability community?
Khadija [00:10:50] When you are the first of many from a marginalised community, and you are the first coming out in many ways, or entering those white spaces, it comes with challenges. Sometimes comes the positivity of a new voice. But when you first come out, I think there is excitement Originally. Diversity. Oh, great! We have somebody from that community. Oh, that is so lovely. That doesn't last. If you come in and you are revolutionary as a marginalised person as a black person, as a non-binary person, queer, queer person, disabled person, in those spaces and you start asking questions and wanting an equal seat at the table and an equal voice, not tokenism, equal voice. You are going to get backlash. And people go, okay, there's a reason we didn't want this diversity. Now we have to worry about offending these people. Now we have to worry about somehow being called racist or ableist or homophobic or transphobic. Then you have your community, your wherever you're coming from, being black who want you to be responsible who want their representation the way they want it. Their version of blackness, their version of non-binary ness, their version of queerness. You see, so being a black and Afro indigenous, non-binary, neurodivergent, disabled, physically, you know, wheelchair user, carer. These identities is all sound nice. You know, if you're lining them up, you're like, oh, wow, the oppression Olympics we're going for here. No we're not. What you are seeing are marginalisations, but often those marginalisations are joy, positivity and good things. But what that means is that when I enter those rooms and those spaces there there is disability, it's like, oh, okay, maybe we accept the disability, but we're going to be racist. We don't know how to be culturally competent. We don't know how to be culturally inclusive. We want you to come into the room, but we don't want you to have an impact. We want you to be here, but we don't want you to be heard. We want you here for the photo op, but we don't want, you know, you to tell us how we can change. So for me, it becomes hard because I don't want to just be in a room for the sake of it. I want to be in the room, but make a difference. I want to be in the room to make a change. And then recently I came across that in the autistic space. When I came out as autistic and was trying to ensure we can include more awareness of autism. So people in my community who look like me can see themselves in that community to see their own experiences. And I got hit very quickly with racism from autistic people, who then claim that their autism is what made them racist, and think of how dangerous that is. And I've had disabled people use their disability as an excuse to be racist. I have had queer people use their queerness as an excuse to be racist. People will use what I have found as a black person that sometimes other people, white people with marginalised identities, will hide behind those marginalised identities to perpetrate and not have accountability when it comes to racism. That is just the reality. No matter what marginalised identity a white person may have, white privilege is still the prevailing big privilege. Because we live in a white supremacist world. So not whether you're white, a queer, white disabled, or white autistic. I'm sorry its still more privileged than me. A black autistic and black disabled person. So how can we get away from these intersections and act that like. This one identity we have in common absolves people of their racism, or means they don't have to do the work they need to do to unpack all that toxicity they have taken in. How do we do that? And create spaces is for people like me so that we can have that representation. But it it's not tokenistic. It is it is impactful. It is meaningful. It's sustainable. We have a long way to go. And as it stands, I don't feel safe. And I don't think many people who, have intersectional identities feel safe. And that actually breaks my heart because I am a strong, outgoing person. I am not a wallflower. So if I get that kind of treatment, I think of those who are fed up vulnerable than me. How much harm can be caused to them in this space if they're not cleaned up, if we don't hold them accountable, if we don't call them out, if we don't say do better. What? Nothing is going to change. It will just keep going. So the next disabled child, who comes up and wants to be a leader. Wants to be a human rights activist. I don't want it to be harder for them. I want it to be easier for them. But it won't happen. And this segregation won't end if we don't do the work. If we don't call for accountability, if we don't demand accountability, if we don't demand better, it won't change. And that's not good enough for me.
Peta [00:16:35] It certainly requires bravery. It requires a strong voice, but it also requires energy. I'm sitting here thinking, oh my goodness, that's so much to have to live with every day. And it's something that's ongoing. And yes, as a disabled person, I understand a little bit, but of course I don't because I'm privileged and it's like, I really commend you for your work. Thank you. I would love to hear your insights on the current support systems for refugees, which is another area you have experience in migrants with disabilities? Can't even imagine trying to navigate that system, let alone understand the NDIS like the NDIS is so confusing for people who call, you know their first language is English. I can't imagine how difficult it is for those who you know it's not their first language.
Khadija [00:17:33] It's almost like an impossible situation. First of all, I think people don't understand that when you get Fijian migrant, there are stipulations around disability that it actually means some people don't have access. They can't even come to Australia. You know, I say to people all the time, if I had my autism and ADHD diagnosis and all the other stuff on the record when I was younger, we will not have resettled. That's refugees in Australia. I won't have qualified. Can you imagine that? Because I would have been in perfect. So when you put that, you know, in context, disability rights, migrant rights and disability try to get you to rights, a disability for life because everyone needs them. It's two guys. And even in situations like that where somebody saying I am not fit due to gender and it can even be disability, they're part of the world where you wouldn't get the care you deserve. You'd be able to seek refuge on those basis where you can seek the care you deserve. So let's then say that you are a refugee. Do acknowledge and officially and you have support. Where is the education around disability within culturally and linguistically diverse communities? I have been in Australia for 23 years. I was raised by a nurse who still refused to take me to a doctor's appointment because they were not a priority. So from the age of 13, I took myself to this appointment. I spoke eight languages. English was my eighth language, a little child talking to a bunch of adults in white coats. And I had an educated parent. So what about those who don't have parents, who have the educational background, the literacy? When you do have people thinking that being disabled is a curse? Yeah, it's a curse. I my mom spent more time praying over me, having different religious, you know, people cry over me to heal me than she did taking effort to take me to a medical appointment or commit to the medications I needed, or commit to the diet I did that to be put on. So some of my symptoms could be alleviated, alleviate or reduce English. So my first language could be reduced because where was that support for her to understand? You have a disabled child. This is what it means. Here are the stigmas we understand that come that you might believe in here your belief systems. How do we work with those to find a way to bring you along so your child's needs can be met, so your needs can be met? I have a vulnerable community that has lots of other challenges, including racism, who are scared of our medical system being discriminated against them and their children. Worried about child protection involvement because of race? Let's not forget this country. How it creates non-white parents. Let's give our traditional owners of this land indigenous people, how they have treated them. Let's not forget disabled people. Women in this country have been still alive without their consent. Let's not pretend this system is so safe that marginalised people are. Just choose not to engage. No they're not. It's about 50. Until communities are made safe and given support. And then we tackle the factors that lead them to not accepting support herbalism, racism, accessibility, system literacy. And I am not shocked when we're not seeing proper support on the NDIS. I am not shocked on the diagnosis of autism and ADHD in cultural communities. I am not shocked. Families don't want to engage with systems. I am one of Australia's top human rights activist, and I am traumatised at the effort it takes to advocate for the needs of my child. I am in dated with NDIS admin disability admin, the effort it takes, the language literacy, it takes the system literacy de-regulation it takes the functional capacity it takes. Even I have had to rely on the social worker for my child. I've had to act for support, for advocacy because it's emotional. It is draining. It's a full time job.
Peta [00:21:46] And not only that, we all know that it's forever because our disabilities are forever. So it's that resilience to keep going and keep doing it. And I know people listening won't have the ability to help as much as we want to. But do you have any suggestions of how we can help your communities?
Khadija [00:22:09] I think a lot of ways helping ourselves helps others, because I don't want anyone to think they're going to save any community or all that it's on them. But I think, and I've always said this as a human rights activist, we are all these solutions to the challenges our family, community and nation are facing. If you focus on the what, you can influence your sphere of influence, how you raise your kids, the conversations you have, our gang, gender, racial equality, sexual equality, those values, what you take to your workplace, who you hire, the accommodations you put in place for culturally, linguistically diverse people, for neurodivergent people. When you apply people out for jobs. Who are you asking to recruit? Are you having peer support workers who can work directly with communities? And you bring in consultants like me who know that community, rather than some white consultant who has not lived experience. Maybe you have enough to be part of your advisory group so we can be have a seat at the table for inform the services you deliver for us. Maybe next time you're on a panel. Pass the mic. Think of who doesn't have a seat at the table. Who needs to have that seat? You have podcast interview. More diverse voices. I think too often people think when they ask me that question or they think what they think. I'm asking that question. I am going to say, I need you to go to this street and burn it down. No. Do the best you can do where you have influence.
Peta [00:23:42] I have to say, I'm so keen to hear about what you hope for your future, because you're someone that clearly has a very clear understanding of what you hope for yourself, hope for your child. And I'd also I'd love to hear what you hope for the disability community in general.
Khadija [00:24:01] I think with the disability community, my hope is that we will come together and recognise that there is ranked in numbers and our unity, but that we are only as good as the most marginalised within our own community. You know what I mean? When we in the wider community, yes, where the marginalised, but within the disabled community there more marginalised people that layers of minority, right? I mean, take being an autistic person and non-speaking autistic person. The extra vulnerability kicks in. If we're not thinking how even in our own spaces, we're making sure they have a voice that we're not prioritising prioritising, just variable speech. I mean, think of what what perspectives we can get from that cohort. We need to listen to the more marginalised voices within our community and see them as equals. So this stigma, this game and I'm looking at you ADHD is and you got that vision. People don't want to say you with autism who used to sometimes understand their autistic traits that are stand alone. And when you mean autism, say autism. Don't say neurodivergent and hide it. Autism isn't it that you would. And for those of us who are in a wheelchair, be mindful of us. Be inclusive. I'm asking you to lag people. We're glad you have the privilege of your two legs working. I don't I don't begrudge you that. But don't look down upon us because we sit in our wheelchair. And sure, your spaces are accessible so we can also to our well in our wheels and have our say. We are all valid each and every one of us. I don't care which disabilities you think are embarrassing, who bad. We are people. These are our disabilities that don't need to be clean, neat and fit nice boxes. If we can't accept ourselves, how do we expect the rest of the wider community to do better? My goal for my future is to. To thrive. To look after myself. To know my value beyond what I produce. What I do for others. To know my values beyond my contribution. Because I am valid just for existence. The fact that I have a right to just exist and not be productive or do anything meaningful because I don't have to and I shouldn't have to.
Peta [00:26:33] Thank you for listening to this week's episode and thank you for your time. Don't forget last week if you want to scroll back into the fade, I spoke to John McKenna. We spoke about palliative care. We spoke about the NDIS and we spoke about what it was like for him living with a disability, which included a special school and a time in an institution. If you do enjoy this episode and the show in general, can I encourage you to share the show on social media or write and review the podcast on Apple or Spotify? It really does help more people find the podcast. Thank you for listening. And until next week. Have a good one, guys. Bye. I would like to respectfully acknowledge the Wurundjeri people and Bunurong people of the Kulin Nation, of which I record the podcast today. And I pay my respects to both elders, past and present, along with and especially to those in the First Nations communities who are disabled themselves.
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