Michael Coles delves into the profound reality of autistic burnout, sharing how masking and the demands of navigating school, work, and social environments contributed to his experiences. He opens up about the emotional and physical toll of burnout, offering insights into his recovery journey and the strategies that have helped him rebuild.
Michael also highlights the importance of community and self-acceptance in finding balance and thriving as an autistic person.
Connect with Michael:
Website: http://www.deepdiveau.net
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thedeepdiveau/
Connect with Peta:
Instagram: @petahooke
Website: www.icantstandpodcast.com
Email: icantstandpodcast@gmail.com
Episode Transcript:
Michael Coles.mp3
Peta [00:00:02] Hello and welcome to the I Can't Stand podcast. The podcast answering your questions on what life is like when you have a disability. My name is Peta. I have cerebral palsy and I'm your host. This week I have Michael Coles. Michael is autistic and experienced autistic burnout. A really important topic that I think we should all better understand. So without any further ado, he is Michael.
Michael [00:00:46] I'm Michael Coles a 49 year old autistic, been diagnosed three times. Firstly with PDD back at when I was three, back in 1978. Secondly, I was diagnosed the second time with Asperger syndrome back in 2010 when I was 35 and also reDiagnosed with Autism Spectrum Disorder back in 2017.
Peta [00:01:06] When did you first start to suspect that you had autism? Michael.
Michael [00:01:12] My mum and basically my dad sort of thought that my my speech was quite delayed. So I knew my speech was very delayed and stuff like that. And I knew that I wasn't sort of like a typical sort of normal, sort of like, you know, child. I really suspected I actually had autism and stuff like that when I was diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome back in 2010. But back then it was actually quite demonised. At first I didn't really understand my condition or accept my condition because I thought I was basically sort of acting normal and stuff like that for about like 34, 35 years of my life. I first started getting meltdowns in 2016 when I actually had to go to hospital and stuff like that for a meltdown and stuff like that. After that basically got called into the office and basically I got told to concentrate and then sort of like, you know. And then last year I had a sort of some problems at work and stuff like that relation to sort of like, you know, people leaving and then sort of like, you know, new people starting and then sort of like denigrating my work. I had a meltdown which caused me to go to hospital.
Peta [00:02:19] And you said it was quite demonised. Well you felt it was quite demonised when you were younger. How was autism framed to you by professionals and family at the time?
Michael [00:02:29] It was sort of like, you know, I felt like I needed to continue just being normal and stuff like that and basically pretending to be normal. In the last couple of years I know a lot of people on TikTok and through social media have basically sort of living their best lives and stuff like that, even though they have autism. So it's sort of like, you know, it kind of inspired me because obviously my daughter's but now being diagnosed and stuff like that with autism as well, it was basically sort of my chance to sort of like, you know, like relate to my daughter. And it's better to sort of like, you know, sort of accept accept me for who I am and as I am authentically are rather than sort of like, you know, pretend that I'm something I'm not.
Peta [00:03:12] And I know I haven't sent you this question, so it's okay if you don't want to answer it. But do you wish you had been diagnosed sooner?
Michael [00:03:20] I have to be honest and stuff like that. I mean, I kind of sort of wish I did. But at the same time, I wish there was more acceptance sooner. So there's a lot more acceptance now than there was like, you know, even ten, 15 years ago, because I think sort of like people are sort of courageous to actually get diagnosed now. And I just feel like there's there's more of the population that is being diagnosed and stuff like that. So therefore, obviously, the more population that gets diagnosed, the more sort of like, you know, services that you can get, all the help you can get. So it's now becoming a bit more accepted within our community where we're becoming more an inclusive community rather than a exclusive community, if that makes sense.
Peta [00:04:04] No, it totally does. So when you reflect back, what was school like for you?
Michael [00:04:11] School was a bit mixed. I mean, I had some it's a good sort of primary school years, but at high school I was actually bullied quite a fair bit. They could tell that I'm actually different, but I didn't sort of like know how my difference did affect me in stuff like that because there wasn't any knowledge out there. I think the sort of like, you know, the diagnosis wasn't there or sort of like, you know, even like asperger's syndrome didn't actually come into being until 1994. So that was like two years after I left high school. So that was sort of like, you know, the awareness wasn't around. There's still that sort of like that discrimination and stuff like that with some schools because we've had to change schools with my daughter like last year because of this discrimination. But she's got so many so much better support now than she had at other school. So.
Peta [00:05:05] I'm assuming with the experience of your daughter, you're coming at it from a different completely different lens because you have your experience and you have her experience. But based on your knowledge now, what do you wish your school would have put in place to make you feel more included, confident and comfortable at school?
Michael [00:05:28] Look at my daughter's school. Now, they've actually sort of like, you know, got the got a like a sort of separate quiet room I'm pretty much standard. So basically if they sort of like, you know, they felt like the environment's too much or they sort of like, you know, the, the noise is too much and stuff like that, they can go and regulate in this particular room. So basically separate rooms would be a start. I kind of said it when I was in high school myself. I kinda was a library person, so I kind of stuck to the library because it was a nice, quiet place anyway. So that was that was sort of my sanctuary to a degree.
Peta [00:06:02] Has finding the autistic community impacted you personally?
Michael [00:06:07] In the last 12 months. It's been fantastic to actually sort of link in with quite a few quite a number of people from the autistic community. Firstly, I've been joining a group called Neuro Access. Which one of your guest, previous guests, Annie Crowe, actually runs. It's a fantastic sort of group. And I'm also sort of like a part of the Nerodiverent business collective, which I've been able to sort of like grow my podcast, like numbers and all that type of stuff. And also sort of like, you know, doing the Deep Dive podcast, which I produce and stuff like that. I edit, produce, host that type of thing. It's actually sort of a good. It was actually good to sort of link with other autistic people as well. So I know they are living their best lives as well. I think it's sort of like typifies like, you know, the standard now compared to what it was before. There's a lot more support out there. So from four neurodivergent individuals. I've met a lot of great people and stuff like that, which I didn't have access to before. I just feel like I just feel like so enriched and stuff like that by, you know, about autistic people and stuff like that in the community which had which are doing great things. It's sort of like, you know, it's cathartic to sort of know how they can sort of like, you know, how how can I better understand autistic people and how can I sort of like, you know, understand like others and stuff like that on the autism spectrum? Because I think it's so important to sort of know that sort of things, to do those things in the first place.
Peta [00:07:37] Thinking back to when you were first entering the workforce, I know you've touched on working, but I really want to deep dive into this with you. How did you envision work life to be?
Michael [00:07:50] It is a bit of a different story and stuff like that because in my first full time job was I was bullied as well because I think when I was about 20 years old, I tried to sort of like look for work about six months, visit the businesses, put it in my resume, all that type of thing. And then I finally got work. And then I was bullied stuff like that because, you know, people suspected I was a little bit different and stuff like that. And they sort of like clued on to that and they sort of bullied me because of it. I got out of that job after about 18 months because it got retrenched, luckily. And then I sort of like, you know, I was working in one of the big banks and stuff like that for about 21 years, which I had some good moments and some sort of not so good moments, but it's sort of like, you know, towards the end it wasn't so good. And then basically of my last workplace and stuff like that. It was really good at the start. But then sort of like, you know, people left and then they bullied me and stuff like that out of work. So I don't know why, but it's, it's, you know, I just feel like I work a little bit differently to some of us and stuff like that, even though I like, I put in to give it like a little sort of like a blurb basically sort of presenting how I actually sort of work and how my autism affects me. Having those type of documents in hand can really sort of help. But at the same time, if they don't understand in the first place, it's a bit of a struggle.
Peta [00:09:13] And you feel it sounds like. Well, I'm not going to assume. Do you feel that it's improving or is it just in, you know, workplace to workplace? What do you feel it is like to be employed as an autistic person?
Michael [00:09:30] There's still a long way to go. I think with the open plan offices, it's a basically a big killer because the environment is also sort of like the, you know, the bright lights because you need to sort of find out what accommodations can be done and stuff like that and what accommodations are willing to be done. That's still a big struggle as well. So I think from the workplaces point of view, there's still quite a bit to go. I know some autistic people that have created their own businesses. They can say so they can hire Nerovdiveregent people and autistic people to be able to sort of like, you know, have their best life in the workplace. But on the general sense, there's still a long way to go.
Peta [00:10:11] I really want to talk to you about burnout, because I know you're a big advocate of talking about burnout, particularly autistic burnout. What were the initial signs for you?
Michael [00:10:22] I don't tolerate stress too well. Basically what occurred is basically it's sort of like, you know, there was people changing and then they sort of like, you know, changed all these sort of like, you know, the styles and stuff like that, the work that I was used to be doing. It basically changed dramatically in a in a very short space of time. You basically get trained and stuff like that in like the few systems that basically does work for you, but then they sort of change it. 'We don't like you doing this this way anymore.' So it's basically sort of caused a lot of stress, caused a lot of anxiety. It caused a lot of tiredness. Basically it was like drowning in a big pool and stuff like that. So was like, you know, they're basically piling into work on top of me. So I text my wife basically saying, I don't want to do this job anymore. I couldn't last or 10:00 because basically I rang the one three health number, which is the health number here in Queensland, and I got advised to be taken to a hospital.
Peta [00:11:23] Yeah. Okay. That's. That's a huge thing to have to go through. I'm so sorry.
Michael [00:11:31] It is. Yeah, and autistic burnout is so real. And there's a lot of people there basically saying it's the like, it's all in your head and stuff. There needs to be a lot of improvement. In some ways, this is especially in the workplace.
Peta [00:11:46] And did you find that going to hospital was what helped you?
Michael [00:11:52] They took me to a mental health unit and stuff like that. But it was like extremely calming. And I've basically sort of like, you know, it allowed me to sort of like, you know, wind down and basically sort of sleep it off, which I think was really good in a sense. But they sort of felt they did feel like they I needed some more time off to be able to sort of like, you know, to actually recover. And then I've actually went back to my GP and then. It. Basically, they advised me to resign from my workplace and find a lot better work that would actually suit me.
Peta [00:12:26] And do you feel that the need for masking contributed to your burnout?
Michael [00:12:32] Yes, significantly, actually. I think sort of like, you know, for, you know, for quite a fair while, for about 49 years, I was trying to sort of basically sort of like, you know, people pleased to my detriment, to be honest. But the problem with that is basically it's you're not living your life authentically. I think people got to realise that basically you need to sort of set boundaries for yourself. And I made the big mistake of not setting boundaries for myself and not sort of communicating those boundaries too well. I think at the same time, it's also the workplaces fault because I mean, they didn't sort of advocate for my needs and stuff like that, even though they knew I had autism. So I mean, I was diagnosed before I went into my last job and I got it through a disability service provider. They basically knew that I had autism. It was going so well and stuff like that that you sort of like, you know, they said have said, Ah, it doesn't exist anymore. But it's sort of like it's like it, it's episodic and stuff like that comes up from, from time to time to time depending on, you know, what have you been bullied and stuff like that. Have you been sort of like stressed? If there's a lot of life events going on when there's sort of a lot going on and stuff like that, you just basically can't cope and you try to communicate that and you can't communicate that. So you've got that that other barrier as well. I'm still recovering from it now. Sort of like I went in to see like, you know, some casual work and stuff like that back last month. I've been able to access therapies through the NDIS, which I've never been able to do before. It was able to access occupational therapy, speech therapy and psychology and stuff like that on a regular basis. We've had the NDIS, where would I be? I would actually sort of like having to put out fires pretty much all the time and still like, you know, I struggle, but I'm not struggling quite as much now.
Peta [00:14:31] That's really great to hear. Apart from the therapies that you've implemented in your life, have there been any other strategies that you've implemented to help with your recovery?
Michael [00:14:43] Well, basically, I'm sort of working sort of like, you know, two part time jobs or two casual jobs instead, the one full time job. So I don't feel like I'm being letting the team down or if I sort of like, you know, lose my job or something like that because of my autism and stuff like that, That's basically sort of like, you know, if one part doesn't work, I can basically go to another part. At least I've been able to be present for my daughter rather than sort of like, you know, not be present, which I was before. So it's sort of like it's better for me in that sort of sense to be able to sort of do that.
Peta [00:15:17] And also you're illustrating to her what an autistic life can be. So that's really important.
Michael [00:15:24] Yeah, exactly. Because I think sort of like living a best life is, I think having a better life that is happy. That is a happier life. I think it's better for us autistics rather than sort of like, you know, having a bit of a miserable one. Like, you know, like I was sort of feeling on and off for about the last 49 years.
Peta [00:15:45] I'm pleased to hear that you're on the happier side of life. Michael That's really good. Do you believe burnout is experienced differently by autistic people compared to non-autistic people?
Michael [00:15:58] A lot differently. Your brain sort of works about ten times harder than what it actually supposed to be. So you sort of like, you know, feel it much faster. You feel it much harder. You can't sort of like deal with things and stuff like that, or you can't deal with too much the same time because you're only really you can only sort of have a bit of a limit or something like that where to feel stable and to feel sort of regulated and stuff. If your feelings are basically like two, you can handle stress lot better with basically if it sort of goes up to about ten and stuff like that. Well, yeah, sort of like, you know, react in a way that sort of like you can't cope and stuff like that. So it's sort of, it's not great for your mental health. And it's also the fact is basically you're dealing with a lot more stuff and stuff like that than a normal person dealing with burnout does. For us autistics, it's a lot harder.
Peta [00:16:53] So what advice do you have for autistic people in the community? Managing or avoiding burnout, especially in considering work or social environments?
Michael [00:17:07] I think sort of like being sort of like a partly self employed person is actually sort of quite a good idea. I think with self-employment, you can actually sort of control like, you know, the environment. You can sort of like work from home. You can control the environment. You can control the style of work. You know, control the way you actually work as well. Because I think sort of like working for an employer, you have to sort of like, you know, do do it kind of their way. But it's sort of like being self-employed. You can actually sort of like, you know, have that get that sense of control back, which I think sort of like it's really essential to have that. Control the lighting, control of, the mood. We could even like, you know, basically sort of like, you know, wear headphones and stuff like that and listen to music and sort of work our lives away and stuff like that. We can sort of like, you know, work at different times of the day.
Peta [00:17:58] For those among us who are neurotypical, how can we best support autistic people to prevent burnout?
Michael [00:18:06] Firstly, you need to sort of like, you know, talk to or basically talk to the professionals and stuff like that that are dealing with the sort of like, you know, dealing with the person, like the psychologist, the speech therapist, the occupational therapist, any other allied health providers, the GP and stuff like that. Talk to each other because I think sort of like getting a full picture and stuff like that. On how they can sort of like help is really essential and stuff like that to that. I think sort of like having some accommodations that would actually suit the person and trying to sort of create an environment that actually seats the person as well. We can control the environment, control the sounds, smells and stuff like that, so you don't get overstimulated and stuff like that. And then you could sort of like, you know, I know you can be in your own little bubble, but that's sort of like if, if it works that way for you, I think it's better doing it that way.
Peta [00:19:04] Thank you for listening to this week's episode. I hope you enjoyed it. Don't forget, you can always leave a writing and review on whatever platform you're listening on. Please just fill in the stars. Share this show with a friend. So more people find out the podcast exists. You can always find me over on Instagram. My handle is at Peter Hook, spelt P.E.T.A.H.O.O.K.E. Or you can send me an email icantstandpodcast@gmail.com. Thank you so much for listening and thank you, Michael, for your time. Until next week. Have a good one, guys. Bye. I would like to respectfully acknowledge the Wurundjeri people and Bunurong people of the Kulin Nation of which I recalled the podcast today. And I pay my respects to both elders past and present, along with and especially to those in the First Nations communities who are disabled themselves.
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